Tuesday, November 08, 2011

Dogs on NPR

There was an interesting interview with Mark Derr on NPR's Fresh Air about the evolution of dogs.  Mark Derr had some great quotes, my favorite being, 'Dog's are nuts.  They do crazy things'.  I should check for spy cams at my house.  But I also have to give him props for speaking about against breeding for defect:

"I'll say it bluntly, and it has to be said: Some of these breeds are incapable of giving birth without C-section. ... I think that it certainly is wrong to produce animals that aren't healthy. It's bad for the animal and bad for the people who take them into their homes and find out that this dog they love is going to die at a very young age because of an inheritable disease. ... We really should ask ourselves whether it is fair to the animal to do that. I am of the opinion that it's not."

This quote is the short version, he had more to say on breeding issues in the interview and sadly he acknowledged that saying these things had gotten him in trouble in the past.  Because even more sadly speaking out against intentionally creating breeds of dogs with genetic diseases, deformities, orthopedic and breathing problems, etc. is controversial.

9 comments:

  1. I was just on my soapbox this very morning to someone I barely know who asked me something about AKC, and I went off about dogs who can't reproduce except by c-section, or berners who typically die of cancer around age 5 or 6, or the pug(s) who died of the heat in the big heat wave back east this summer, just going out into the yard killed them. That's just nuts. So, yeh, I wayyy agree with that.

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  2. Yeah and it's nuts as well that these ideas are controversial.

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  3. As I learned repeatedly while working on wikipedia, even on things not quite as ugly as dogs being unable to reproduce naturally, people feel very strongly about their breeds. Some I have less sympathy for than others. But I can kind of buy into the arguments that have split many, many working breed groups away from the same breed groups within AKC: If it doesn't *look* like an Xyz breed, then what's to distinguish it from any other breed? vs If it doesn't *act* like an Xyz breed, then what's the point of even having the breed?

    But what conformation breeding has done to pugs, frenchies, german shepherds, corgis, bulldogs, and so many others...it is to weep.

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  4. Although I must admit that frenchies are really, really cute. I would never own one, in part because I completely dislike the deformation that has been done to it.

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  5. Well sure frenchies are cute, lots of the deformed breeds are cute but it's unfair as humans with the supposedly big brains to create animals that are going to suffer and/or live diminished lives just to satisfy our weird aesthetics. I would never want to live in the body of a frenchie. But we're such a visual species, we just can seem to help ourselves. Can't count the number of times I've done home visits for Border Collie rescue and when I ask the person why they want a BC they say because they like the markings. But in all other respects they'd make a good home so I don't deny them based on that one statement but still it makes me want to bash my head against the wall.

    I'd be perfectly happy if the AKC and the whole concept of breeds disappeared and we just had dogs. Mark Derr's theory on the evolution of dogs is that they were self-selecting for sociability to humans rather than tameness as Coppinger theorized. But how many breeders ever advertise their dogs as 'sociable to humans'? If they do it's as an afterthought and not the primary selling point. And that's really at the core of it what most humans want, especially those just looking for nice pets. Health, good temperament, sociability, who breeds primarily for those things anymore? And who looks for those traits as the most important things when looking for a dog?

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  6. The split between AKC conformation lines, sport lines and working lines are whole 'nuther can of worms. The BC people are quite happy for the split from AKC and genetically the dogs are so different they're practically different breeds anyway. They don't even consider conformation dogs or sport dogs (agility, frisbee, etc.) to be the same as the working dogs.

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  7. I'm very partial to mixed breeds, myself. :-) I learned my lesson when we adopted a Siberian Husky "because Huskies are beautiful" (that's what my spouse wanted) and she seemed really sweet.

    Yep, the split between conformation & AKC breeds is something that I learned a lot about while working on wikipedia--and failed miserably at incorporating the differing standards into the whole dog universe on wikipedia. I was happy enough just to get people to agree that there are breed standards organizations other than AKC. Like, for example, FCI. Every time I posted a photo of a "working" [fill in breed], it would get voted down as not being representative of the "standards" breed. I love wikipedia; I have put a lot into it and I think it's great; but there are limitations to collaborative editing when one is outside the mainstream.

    In summary: I think we're both preaching to the choir. ;-)

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  8. Oh I know. I just wish the choir were bigger and less easily offended.

    Most working dogs look very different from their beauty pageant counterpart. You wouldn't believe (or perhaps you would) how many people argue with me about Strummer being a purebred BC. And I don't even care but he is.

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  9. Oh, yeah, like Boost. On top of everything else, when her tail is up, it has a huge curl, which is apparently offensive. But they *act* like border collies.

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